Born about in England
[uncertain]
Ancestors [uncertain]
Daughter of John (Marshal) FitzGilbert
and Sybil (Salisbury) Marshal
Sister of
Sybilla Marshal, Gilbert Marshal [half], Walter Marshal [half], John Marshal, William Marshal, Anselm Marshal, Maud (Marshal) Pont de l'Arche and Henry Marshal
Wife of
William Gras
— married
[date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants 
Mother of
Margaret (Gras) Gant
Died [date unknown]
[location unknown]
Profile last modified
| Created 20 Aug 2012
This page has been accessed 4,385 times.
Biography
- This profile appears to be for one of the two daughters of John Fitz Gilbert by Sybilla Evreux. The first was named Maud, and she married Robert de Pont de l'Arche.
- This would have to be the only other documented daughter of John and Sybil Fitz Gilbert, whose first name is unknown, and whose surname is Marshal.[1]
- Called "Daughter Marshal" by biographers, she married William le Gras.[1] They had six sons and one daughter.[1]
- William le Gras was living in 1210 and died before 1219.[1]
- A date and location of birth and of death for Unknown Daughter (Marshal) Gras is not in Royal Ancestry.
Children
- William le Gras, died before 1242
- Robert le Gras, died before 1219
- William le Gras, (again) died before 1242 (also)
- Hamon
- Anselm, Bishop of St David's
- possibly Richard, a monk at Westminster
- Margaret (or Margery) le Gras, m. Sir Ralph de Somery, Knight, before 1194. They had two daughters and two sons. Sir Ralph died shortly after Michaelmas 1210. The widow Margaret (Gras) Somery married second as his second wife, before 1220/21, Maurice Gant or Gaunt, Knight. There were no children from their marriage. Sir Gaunt died in 1230.
- Margaret (Gras) (Somery) Gaunt died after 14 June 1247.
Sources
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, by Douglas Richardson, Vol IV, page 39 - 40
- Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), volume IV, page 34 - 41, see page 39
- Our Royal, Titled, Noble and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins database online, compiled by Mr. Marlyn Lewis, follows Douglas Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry. It includes Magna Carta Surety Barons and many of their descendants. Sybil de Salisbury (aka Sybilla Evreux)
- Source: #S-2141108661 Ancestry Family Trees, Text: http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=6601291&pid=1323327686 NOTE: This link does not work
- Source: #S-2141108661 Ancestry Family Trees, Text: http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=6601291&pid=1323327688 NOTE: This link does not work
- Created through the import of Sheppard_Duncan_Bickham_Stroud.ged on 01 February 2011.
- Created through the import of Sheppard_Duncan_Bickham_Stroud.ged on 01 February 2011.
Is Unknown your ancestor? Please don't go away!
Login to collaborate or comment, or
contact
the profile manager, or
ask our community of genealogists a question.
Login to collaborate or comment, or contact
the profile manager, or ask our community of genealogists a question.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com
DNA
No known carriers of Unknown's DNA have taken a DNA test. Have you taken a test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.
No known carriers of Unknown's DNA have taken a DNA test. Have you taken a test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.
Featured Auto Racers: Unknown is 29 degrees from Jack Brabham, 31 degrees from Rudolf Caracciola, 26 degrees from Louis Chevrolet, 26 degrees from Dale Earnhardt, 41 degrees from Juan Manuel Fangio, 24 degrees from Betty Haig, 30 degrees from Arie Luyendyk, 28 degrees from Bruce McLaren, 26 degrees from Wendell Scott, 26 degrees from Kat Teasdale, 26 degrees from Dick Trickle and 32 degrees from Maurice Trintignant on our single family tree. Login to see how you relate to 33 million family members.
Complete Peerage erroneously calls her a sister of William le Marshal, Earl of Pembroke, not his sister. She was his niece. See the relevant discussion at soc.genealogy.medieval.
Historian Douglas Richardson bases his proposition on John Hunt's book, Lordship and the Landscape (1994), which discusses the early history of the Somery family. "On pages 34–35," Richardson writes, "he presents concrete evidence from the Brooksby Cartulary that Ralph de Somery's wife, Margaret, was actually the daughter of William le Gras, which William is thought to have been married to a sister of Earl William Marshal. Thus, it would appear that Margaret de Somery was the Earl's niece,"
This makes the following models obsolete:
Margaret MARSHALL [Pedigree]
Daughter of John FITZGILBERT (1106-1165) and Sybil de Salisbury (1120-)
Married Sir Ralph de SOMERY Baron Dudley (1151-1210)
Children: [listed under entry for Ralph de SOMERY]
Sources:
1. "Some Early English Pedigrees",
Vernon M. Norr. 2. "Ancestral roots of certain American colonists who came
to America before 1700", Frederick Lewis Weis, 1992, seventh edition. The earlier editions were called: "Ancestral roots of sixty colonists who came to New England 1623-1650" Margaret Marshal1
F, #129624
Last Edited=18 Sep 2004
Margaret Marshal is the daughter of John Marshal.1 Child of Margaret Marshal and Sir Ralph de Somery
Joan de Somery+1 d. a 1273
Citations
[S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume II, page 127. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage.
Margaret Marshall was a sister of William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke. She was born before 1165.
See "My Lines"
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p54.htm#i8401 )
from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )
She was born before 1165.
See "My Lines"
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p54.htm#i8401 )
from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )
From Medlands:
RALPH [II] de Somery (-[Jan/Jul] 1210). m (before 1194) as her first husband, MARGARET Crassus, daughter of WILLIAM [III] Crassus & his wife [--- Marshal] (-after 14 Jun 1247). Her parentage and first marriage are confirmed by a charter [dated to before 1194] under which “William le Gros” gave land at Little Dalby to “Ralph Somery” as part of the marriage contract for his daughter Margaret[1322].
[The Complete Peerage names “Margaret m 1stly Ralph de Somerey, 2ndly Maurice de Gaunt” as the first daughter of John FitzGilbert “the Marshal” and his second wife[1323]. If right, this would mean that she was Margaret Marshal, daughter of John Marshal & his second wife Sibyl of Salisbury. From a chronological point of view, it cannot be correct. The births of the children of John FitzGilbert and his second wife can be dated to [1145/55]. Concerning Margaret’s first marriage, the chronology suggests that the children of Ralph de Somery and his wife were born in the late 1190s or the early years of the 13th century. Concerning the second marriage, Maurice de Gant’s wife is recorded as living in 1247. As can be seen, none of these dates is compatible with Margaret having been the daughter of John FitzGilbert.]
The Pipe Roll 1210 records that "Margareta que fuit uxor Radulfi de Sumeri" arranged to pay an instalment of her fine for the assignment of her dower in Berkshire in midsummer[1324].
Margaret married secondly ([1220/21]) as his second wife,
John's second son by his second wife, William Marshal, was granted Pembroke as part of his marriage to the heiress Isabel Claire, daughter of the Earl of Pembroke, in 1189 -- twenty-five years after John Fitz Gilbert the Marshal died.
Let us agree that none of John Fitz Gilbert's children were born at Pembroke.
John Fitz Gilbert had two daughters by his second wife, Sybilla, one named Maud who married Robert de Pont de l'Arche, and the other whose given name has not been found in the three primary documents that mention her.
Could we please use this profile for Mary Marshal, whose name is not found in Richardson's Royal Ancestry (pub 2013) or elsewhere, and make it ____ Marshal, aka "Daughter Marshal", who married William le Gras.
Please read this recent G2G question/answer to understand fully who ____ Marshal is in relation to the rest of her family. "Mary" would fit the bill perfectly, if we can change her to Unknown Marshal and give her a husband and children. It would be very helpful.
That is the plan for now, and if anyone has any objections please Comment here or me. Thank you.