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Isabel (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp (aft. 1310 - bef. 1316)

Isabel de Beauchamp formerly Beauchamp
Born after in Warwick Castle, Warwickshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
[spouse(s) unknown]
Died before before age 5 [location unknown]
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Rev Daniel Washburn Jones private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 18 Feb 2011
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Note: After 1310 birth based on Richardson recording her parents m. as such.[1]

She died before 1316 based on her not being mentioned in her father's 1316 will. This also rules out a 1326 marriage (profile had been attached as spouse of Sir John de Clinton, 2nd Baron Clinton, married 1326 in England). See this G2G discussion for sources. The discussion also surmises that the John Clinton named by Douglas Richardson as spouse of Isabel, daughter of Guy & Alice, was not the titled John Clinton represented in WikiTree by Clinton-218; he has been detached as her husband. ~ Noland-165 13:08, 28 April 2016 (EDT)
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Biography

Douglas Richardson does not have much description/bio for Isabel. However, she is mentioned in the bio for her father:

Sir Guy de Beauchamp, 10th Earl of Warwick, Sheriff of Worcestershire was born between 1271 and 1275 at of Elmley, Worcestershire, England; Age 23 to 27 in 1298; 30 in 1301.2,3 He married Isabel de Clare, daughter of Sir Gilbert de Clare, 9th Earl of Clare, 7th Earl of Hertford, 3rd Earl of Gloucester and Alice de Lusignan, between 4 March 1291 and 11 May 1297; Latter date is Papal Dispensation to stay married, they being related in the 4th degree of kindred. No issue.15,16,2,4,8,17,9 Sir Guy de Beauchamp, 10th Earl of Warwick, Sheriff of Worcestershire and Isabel de Clare were divorced after 1302.18,2,3,8 Sir Guy de Beauchamp, 10th Earl of Warwick, Sheriff of Worcestershire married Alice de Tony, daughter of Sir Ralph VII de Tony, Lord Flamstead, Helson, Carnanton and Mary de Brus, on 12 February 1310 or 13 February 1310; They had 2 sons (Sir Thomas, 11th Earl of Warwick; & John, Lord Beauchamp) and 5 daughters (Maud, wife of Geoffrey, 2nd Lord Say; Emme, wife of Roland de Oddingseles; Isabel, wife of John de Clinton[2][3][4][5][6][7][8]; Elizabeth, wife of Sir Thomas, 3rd Lord Astley; & Lucy, wife of Roger de Napton).2,3,6,7,8,11,12 Sir Guy de Beauchamp, 10th Earl of Warwick, Sheriff of Worcestershire left a will on 25 July 1315.3,8 He died on 12 August 1315 at Warwick Castle, Warwickshire, England; Buried at Bordesley Abbey.2,3,8

Research Notes

The sources which Richardson cites in support of a "John de Clinton" as Isabel's husband are:

  • Baker, George. The History and Antiquities of the County of Northampton. London: J.B. Nichols and Son (1844), vol. 2, pp 218-219
  • Clutterbuck, Robert. The History and Antiquities of Hertford. London: Nichols, Son, and Bentley (1815),vol 1(2), p. 358.
  • Edmondson, Joseph (the Mowbray herald). An Historical and Genealogical Account of the Noble Family of Greville. London: by the author (1766), pp. 34-37.
  • Dugdale, Sir William. The Baronage of England. (1675), pp. 229-231 (at the very end of the text about Guy de Beauchamp, p. 231)

Regardless of whether these sources are correct or not, there does not appear to be any evidence to support the suggestion that Isabel died very young. Her father, Guy de Beauchamp died rather unexpectedly with (all sources seem to agree) seven children under the age of 6 1/2 years. Three of the (youngest?) daughters were not listed in his will, however it is entirely plausible that he just had not yet added them. The issue of who Isabel's husband may have been needs further research, but the date of her death should be changed to 'unknown.' Stevens-17832 17:45, 13 January 2024 (UTC)


Sources

  1. Douglas Richardson - Magna Carta Ancestry - p. 137
  2. [S5] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 713-714.
  3. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. I, p. 136-138.
  4. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 504-505.
  5. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. IV, p. 203.
  6. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. I, p. 287-289.
  7. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 567-568.
  8. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. V, p. 177.




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Comments: 11

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If she was married shortly before 28 Feb 1310, then it might indicate there is a document with that date mentioning the marriage?
posted by John Atkinson
Richardson actually shows her parents m. to be "shortly before 28 Feb 1309/10" and this being a dual date, 1310 is more likely correct. I'm going to make one last change to reflect this and I'll also fix the disclaimer note to the same.

We've all seen situations where someone was not mentioned in their fathers will and were actually still living, along with Richardson's mention of her being m. to a John de Clinton, does suggest this "could" be the case here, but until someone can come up with some decent source confirming same, I think we have to leave her dying young, as shown.

I have added a research note to the profile, and advocate for changing her birthdate to 'unknown.' There is no evidence supporting her death in childhood.
posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
ps I searched the MCA Google book for guy beauchamp isabel (no quotes or +) & 4th of 26 hits (p 137) had the marriage info

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8JcbV309c5UC&pg=PA229&lpg#v=snippet&q=guy%20beauchamp%20isabel%20&f=false

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
oh - sorry. Missed your previous post that gave early 1309 as marriage date. And I missed that Richardson's MCA says he married Alice "shortly before 28 Feb. 1309/10" - thanks!
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Google Books has Magna Carta Ancestry

You changed after 1307 to after 1309 and was curious as to your rationale for that.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
no idea on her actual b. date ... if we assume the dates shown for her siblings are correct, 1312, 13, 14, two in 1315 ... there are no slots left? ... do you have access to Richardson online?
Liz,

The ref. sources of Richardson also appear to have been copied & pasted from the same site, so the validity of same is unknown.

I had quickly changed the b. date to aft. 1307, per your 1st comment and went to ck. her fathers profile, found an early 1309 m. date, came back, changed it to that and spotted your note in the Bio and now they don't jive.

Went through the changes and it appears the info in Bio was placed in response to an Unsourced badge I put on her last year.

I don't have access to Richardson, so cant verify any of it right away.

Dan

Hi Rev! "After 1309" for birth... because Richardson lists her as third daughter?
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
the bio text appears to be cut/paste from Marlyn Lewis's database:

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p353.htm#i10580

I added full citation for Lewis.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
birth year can't be 1303, as Alice was not yet widowed (her husband before Guy died 1307, according to Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry, vol 1, p 137)
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

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